Gorgeous 24 year old Meredith Powell rapes children, age 15-17, who begged to be raped

65 thoughts on “Gorgeous 24 year old Meredith Powell rapes children, age 15-17, who begged to be raped”

1. My personal belief is that the age of consent should be about 12. I think boys and girls at that age are capable of deciding for themselves whether to have sex or not. In fact it would be strange if they weren’t mentally ready at that age since it appears that nature intended for sexual activity to begin around that time of life because that’s when we usually develop a sex drive.

   To guard against the potential problems of abuse of power by adults you mention surely the best thing is to have rules against people having sex with minors under their authority and to
   educate boys and girls about the dangers of being pressured into sex rather than just a blanket ban on sex with minors. Many people would not agree with me but I think it’s the most sensible and rational approach.

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2. @Admin: Can’t believe we’re discussing adult sex with minors…but alas, that is the case.

   Whats the cutoff age, ie, the youngest age you believe children can have sex with adults? You mention world crimes. In Thailand, pedophiles pay 7 & 8yr old children (boys & girls) for sex. Whats the cutoff age? Not a ‘shaming’ question, just curious.

   In your world, the Catholic Priest scandal would be okay. Most of the priests didn’t rape the kids. They just pressured them & manipulated them. Jerry Sandusky didn’t kidnap, beat & rape most of his victims. Most of those kids were from broken homes & looking for a father figure, not homosexual sex. So no crime in these cases?

   The point being, teachers, priests, and many other adults are in a position of POWER & AUTHORITY over young people. So the potential for abuse is great. Young people don’t understand the machinations & manipulation & head games that adults play. That’s why pedophiles love these careers.

   I’m also curious about your opinion of mentally challenged kids. Are they able to give consent? If not, whats the minimum IQ they can have before they can give consent?

   Once adult-on-minor sex is permitted, you open a Pandora’s box, a can of worms. Its not just about some high school fantasy of fucking a hot teacher.

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3. In that case, maybe it should be illegal but the punishment is only having their teaching license revoked. I really don’t see the point of sending people to prison for consensual sex.

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4. @Jack No-Name: Their Union protects them. Almost impossible to fire a teacher, even for stealing or other criminal behavior.

   Part of this discussion is though, are adolescents capable of making good decisions? Its illegal to buy them alcohol, for example, because the risk for addiction is much higher the younger the person is. Why? Because adolescents are usually not fully developed yet, cognitively/brain wise. If they were fully developed/mature, and could handle themselves in such situations, then it probably wouldn’t be illegal to buy them alcohol.

   Adolescents are notorious for being impulsive b/c their brains don’t have the fully developed wiring in place, nor, the life experience to guide them in making decisions. On this topic, some agree with me, while others do not. There is evidence apparently for both arguments. The laws are there to protect young people from predators, because predators prey on young people b/c they are vulnerable to force, to manipulation to pressure.

   With that being said, I acknowledge it sucks when a fully developed 16yr old girl comes onto a 20yr old guy, they sleep together, then he gets hit with statutory rape charges and is labeled a sex offender the rest of his life. No argument from me, that’s bullshit. Unfortunately, our entire legal system is rife with idiocy, stupidity, and corruption. The legal system in many facets is based on adversity & has no interest in justice. Its a ‘for-profit’ institution. System lets murderers out on early parole & keeps pot dealers or petty thieves locked up for years.

   Nonetheless, it just isn’t right a 30yr or 40yr old teacher is doing one of his/her own 13yr or 15yr old students. Its a unique situation where the teacher has all the power & authority & influence over an entire population of adolescents and the potential exists for continued patterns of having sex with this ‘captive audience’ of students(as is often the case, its rarely just 1 student but often multiple).

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   1. What is the punishment for giving alcohol to a minor?

      Responsible safe sex with a minor is much less damaging then binge drinking, thus should carry a lower penalty. Possession of photos of alcohol, though intended to seduce people into alcohol consumption, is perfectly legal. Possession of adolescent nudity is one of the worst crimes in the world. Though it is a release valve that helps to reduce sex crimes.

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5. Should it be a criminal offense for a teacher to have sex with their students? A sackable offense maybe but why should someone be sent to prison for what is consensual sex???

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6. @Jack No-Name: Yeah procreate means to reproduce, but, you’re also right in that in our contemporary/colloquial language of the day, its also often used interchangeably as meaning ‘to have sex’. Agree the desire to have sex is usually there.

   But IMO its just not right these days, that a 40yr old has sex with a 13yr old or 14yr old, regardless of the gender of the parties. There is too much power play and there is no one to look out for the younger person, these days, where as in the past (centuries or millennia ago) the older person was bound by a social contract to care for the younger female, form some kind of permanent relationship, and the parents/family were almost always involved in this. In layman’s terms, it wasn’t just a ‘quick fuck’ like it usually is today.

   My main point in my posts is: Teachers (and others in authority) shouldn’t be having sex with children/adolescents/minors. Even if you don’t agree with the victim part, which I admit it can frequently be initiated by the adolescent, its not ethical nor is it good for most of the academic community or families when teachers have sex with underage students. Most parents do not want this.

   One of my other issues was that some of the other commenters here were supportive of female teachers having consensual heterosexual sex with male students, but, were not okay with male teachers having consensual homosexual sex with male students. I’m not homosexual…but my problem is it plays right into feminists hands; protecting female teachers, even encouraging it, but yet hypocritically persecuting male teachers for the exact same behavior. Its not consistent, nor conducive, to the Men’s Rights Movement. If we are going to protect men’s rights, it should be all men, straight, gay, bi, black, white, whatever.

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7. Oh, ok. You made it sound like you think that most men don’t find girls of that age sexually attractive at all. Men may not consciously want a baby but nature has equipped them with sexual motivations that would have led to procreation in the EEA and that includes an attraction to young teenage girls.

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8. @Jack No-Name: Procreate means have a baby. Merriam’s Dictionary: “To Produce Children or Offspring.”

   I’d say most 40yr old men don’t want to have a baby with a 13yr old girl. Or at that older age, wouldn’t want a baby with any woman in general.

   They are likely to have a sexual desire for her, but that’s not what I said…I said procreate. Have a baby. Unless you live in Pakistan or some backwards ass place…which I guess is possible. Haha!

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9. @E: “Most 30yr or 40yr old men are not the least interested in procreating with a 13yr or 15yr old girl.”

   WTF makes you think that, LOL!

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10. @Admin: The question was for Schopenbecq and has been posed several times w/o an answer. I think you & Schopenbecq have substantially differing views. We know Schopenbecq hates homosexuals, we already know his answer. Since the gender of the teacher affects Schopenbecq’s opinion, he is biased. He is biased towards protecting female teachers over male teachers for the same behavior. Can’t get more feminist or discriminatory than that.

    Since you’ve taken upon yourself to respond for him, I’m glad to reply. The problem is, you didn’t answer the question either since you didn’t respond to it in first person (deflecting). If it were YOUR son, what would you do?

    You mention a “more mature 15-17yr” old person, acknowledging that as a person ages, they mature – and are by definition more capable of making better decisions at older ages, which is really one of the cruxes of this argument. Essentially you’ve helped make my point; the younger one is, the less mature & able they are to make important decisions, generally speaking.

    Eric who replied previously, indicated studies show that adult reasoning capabilities begin around age 10 or 11. You seem to indicate otherwise, perhaps its age 15-17? So, which is it? I threw out the 13yr old as an ‘in-between’ these two age groups. Its important point b/c as you clearly point out, people are going to jail for this stuff. I suggest you figure out what age that individuals are able to make adult decisions (consent) and stick with it. But you can’t…because no one is absolutely sure and with adolescents it really varies. What we do know, is that adolescents do not have the life experience or maturity that a 30yr old does.

    Besides the age/consent issue…You also failed to address the ethical issue of a teacher having sex with his/her subordinate. What kind of teacher does this? Its a professional and ethical issue. A teacher can & does tell the student what to do, when to do it, how to do it. The student does not really have any alternative or escape. Its not like an adult at a job who can just go get another job, or move, or some other alternative. The student is trapped.

    There is a major power difference here. Its not just about sex or ‘being a victim’. The teacher is teaching students that those in power can do what they want to do. Perhaps in the future, if our sons ever (and probably will) experience sexual harassment or discrimination, they will accept it as the norm.

    It may be that many teenage boys may relish the physical pleasure of getting laid by an attractive teacher…but what ethics and values are being taught to our kids? Are they going to respect adults more b/c of this experience? Will they respect other teachers? Actions have consequences far beyond the short-term. This is about much more than just sex or psychology.

    But speaking of psychology and emotions. What if our sons fall in love with the teacher? She’s going to break their heart. As you said, women prefer older, experienced and more resourceful men. Those are your words. Most teachers don’t want to settle down with a 15yr or 17yr old kid. Would you want that to happen? Would you want the teacher to play all the head games that most women do with your son?

    This isn’t trolling or shaming. These tactical ‘go-to’ words aren’t relevant here. What is relevant is framing the conversation into a context, which is: How does one feel if it ever becomes personal? We can all be arm-chair psychologists & legal experts here…but when it touches home then its often a different scenario. Hope this makes sense. Thanks.

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11. @E, you are trolling:

    If a 300lb man stuck his penis into your 12yr old or 13yr old son’s anus and pumped away, albeit consensually, what would you do?

    Why would your 12 year old son consent? That is a question worth thinking. If it were painful and physically damaging, consent would be extremely unlikely.

    You would also wonder if there is something wrong with how you educated him, and how you supervise your child.

    I will answer your question, though all this is your theoretical construction and very unlikely to happen. In this post we are talking about a 15 or 17 year old boy scoring with a 24 year old bombshell, who seems to be very nice, too.

    Now, if you have an intelligent, well taught, well supervised 12 year old that gives enthusiastic consent to such an anal sex act:

    Surprise! Science indicates that it will not be especially psychologically damaging to him. Rather your going ballistic and becoming a monstrous murderer or mutilator of the 300 lb man, that will traumatize your kid profoundly.

    And don’t blame me for science, don’t blame me for the fact that children are much more resilient then sex hysteria makes us believe.

    Don’t blame me that in reality, children are usually not psychologically damaged by sex, when they really consent to it.

    If your 12 year old son likes to be buggered by a 300 lb monster, you could find out why your son is doing this. You could either support him, or try to convince him to consent to stop this behavior. Or could prohibit such behavior, as you would prohibit drinking alcohol, or going out late night. With firmness, but without resorting to vigilante violence and outright hysteria

    ================
    I gave in to your trolling and answered your trick question. I must repeat that it is more likely that your son, at a somewhat more mature 15-17 years, will want to engage with an attractive women.

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12. Schopenbeq, you aren’t answering the question. If a 300lb man stuck his penis into your 12yr old or 13yr old son’s anus and pumped away, albeit consensually, what would you do? Its really a rhetorical question (that means, we know the answer). You would go ape-shit wild & be out for blood b/c clearly from your comments, you hate homosexual men. So, you don’t support all men. Yet…if a 300lb woman mounted your son, you would congratulate him for his experience. It would be nice if you could answer the direct question instead of pulling an Obama.

    So, you support a woman doing this to your son but not a man. You support women and not men. You don’t even realize it, nor are you aware that you are playing both sides of the fence on this issue. If a man does it you’d go after him, if a woman does it then you congratulate. Weird.

    You continue to regurgitate the same phrases you’ve picked up from the MRM websites. Those are websites I support and agree with the terminology. While there is a lot of shaming & whatnot going on out there, including yourself being one who engages in it, if you wish to offer a credible rebuttal, at least be original.

    As far as shaming goes, the tired attempts to emasculate a guy by calling him homosexual is transparent, and, much more in line with what feminists do. It reflects your fear & paranoia of homosexuals, which often indicates repressed homosexual feelings. I don’t have to rely on attempts to shame or invalidate you as you seem to do a good job yourself.

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13. Rae Simpson is also a proponent of the radical feminist notion that 1 in 6 boys have been sexually abused :

    http://hrweb.mit.edu/worklife/raising-teens/abuse-of-teens.html

    This has the unfortunate implication that 1 in 4 men are paedophile child sex abusers, and that nearly every homosexual in the USA is a child molestor.

    http://theantifeminist.com/1-in-6-boys-has-been-abused-1-in-4-men-are-paedophiles/

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14. @E O.k, I just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading your justification for the forced labelling of young people as ‘victims’ – i.e. child abuse.

    Just briefly – you’re still making the hidden assumption that sex is of massive consequence. This is a female view, based on their evolutionary sexual strategy (i.e. they choose and invest)and is supported by feminists for their own sexual and psychological ends.

    You can quote as much feminist quack science as you like – teens might be slightly less able to ‘weigh up consequences’ but sex in the 21st century is of little consequence, and it is certainly of less consequence than putting a teenager through the hell of courts and therapy and victim labelling. If teens are so dumb, we should raise the voting age to 25. Instead, in Europe the voting age is coming down to 16 (and left-wingers would like it reduced to 14).

    David Lisak also believes that 1 in 16 men admit to being rapists : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lisak He is also a founder of that disgusting quack site 1in6.org which claims that repressed memories of sexual abuse are real and widespread, a belief that has destroyed the lives of thousands of men (and in particular, fathers).

    Do you actually check the links of the studies that you use to justify inflicting harm upon children and men?

    Rae Simpson, the head of the MIT ‘teen brain’ study is a middle-aged hag who is recieving funding from the World Health Organization which is dominated by feminists and feminsit lobby groups pursuing an anti-male sex hysteria agenda.

    As for calling you a homosexual, you used the feminist shaming tactic of implying that I did not care about children as much as you (if you had children..).

    Well I will go further. I think you are a child abuser. I don’t mean you touch children, but you inflict harm upon children for psychological motives thinly justified only by explicitly feminist quack science. Obscenely, you do this under a supposed ‘men’s rights’ agenda. You harm children for your own ideological ends, you are indisputably a child abuser, and at least anyone who isn’t a feminist should agree that you are a child abuser.

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15. Eric, I see what you’re saying. I agree the citizens of the U.S., and even those of several other countries where middle class is growing with the whorish consumerist culture/values we export, are becoming dumbed-down at an alarming rate. We often see the expose, where a reporter from ‘The Tonight Show’ or some News station, walks the streets & asks people simple general questions about history (who was the 1st President of U.S.?), current events, geography (where is Texas?), and they don’t know…and its laughed about and all comical. Very sad b/c University Students don’t know the answers.

    I also agree for the most part, life experiences of 13yr olds & 30yr olds in decades and centuries past may not have been so different. Going back to your argument that we are infantilizing children & young adults, much of it brought on by feminist idealogy and influence. Agreed.

    However, even in centuries past, the people knew that children & adolescents were generally not as adept at making high ‘executive’ decisions that adults could. For whatever reason – physical brain maturity, lack of experience, neurological wiring, adolescents were generally not allowed to do certain important things, e.g., be a general or in command of an army, or say, run the treasury dept of a nation. There were exceptions but as a general rule…

    In centuries/society of past, the situation was very different from today. When an older man wanted to mate with an adolescent female, he approached the parents (adults) and made his intentions clear. He had to promise to maintain her & any offspring. It wasn’t a fling or one-night stand. There were no secrets. His intentions were to procreate with her & he accepted the finacial & social responsibilities that came with this. The parents usually had to agree to this relationship before it took place. If the man reneged on his promises, he was probably outcast or worse. There were strong social contracts & bonds, bringing families & resources together. It was much, much more than just about sex.

    Today’s situation? Well lets be honest. Most 30yr or 40yr old men are not the least interested in procreating with a 13yr or 15yr old girl. Most are not making, or willing to make, any kind of bond or promise to maintain & provide for her. They are in it for pure sexual pleasure and, for lack of a better phrase, some ‘tight virgin pussy’. And likewise, most 13yr old or 15yr old girls don’t want to procreate with a 40yr old man nor be ‘stuck’ with him. Its about sexual pleasure, looking good for her peers, and so on. There is no long-term familial or societal bonding, contracting or benefit like there was for our great-grandparents. Its pure sexual pleasure. This, in part, IMO, has disastrous consequences for us as a society. There are no bonds anymore to keep couples & families & societies together, on any level. Ancient Rome went this way. Disastrous.

    Many of our ancestors had children at young ages. There are several reasons for this (I’ll try to be brief):

    1) Lack of formal education. Schooling if any stopped at earlier ages & ‘work’ began earlier too. You are correct; people HAD to grow up faster & be more responsible. While maturity & responsibility are good qualities to have, it was a brutal life. So they started ‘adult’ lives younger as well. But I don’t think less education (if they could get a good education) is a good thing. More education, if its good, is generally a good thing. Yet another problem here in the U.S.

    2) Life expectancy. A woman born in 1911 had a life expectancy of about 53yrs; for a man it was 50yrs. So your 16yr old grandmother had lived nearly 30% of her life already. People had to ‘hurry up’ and get married, have kids or they were relatively ‘old’ by the time they were 20 or 25 or 30. If a woman didn’t marry by 20 or so she may have missed her chance, at least with a decent man.

    3) Choices. I’m afraid to go into this for fear of sounding like a feminist, which I am not. I despise feminists & have suffered tremendously at their hands. However, in the mostly rural economies & societies of times past, what else was there to do except work (no education opportunities), get married, have kids? (This brings us back to previous point – having sex at young age usually implied a societal & familial bond and contract, which these days it does not). Your grandmother and mine probably weren’t ‘hooking up’ with older men for sexual pleasure & liasions, like what is happening today. Anyway, there were few professional opportunities, limited ability to travel, see the world, etc. A woman was limited in her roles as caregiver & childbearer. I’m not making a moral statement about it, whether its good or bad, its just the way it was. But women have many more choices today. They generally don’t want to procreate at age 13 or 15. This is why you see many young girls trying to escape the Mormon & Amish cultures b/c they are being trapped into this situation that was normal for 100yrs ago but is not normal for today. Those cultures are clinging to a romantic idea of life 100yrs ago that in reality, was a very brutal life. Its too bad the U.S. cannot create a decent educational system like that of say, France (France is screwed up in many ways too, but their educational system is one of the best in the world).

    Eric, I also disagree with your statement about the female teachers not initiating the sex. Much of the legal documentation indicates otherwise. Its also concerning that a young male is learning that if he pleases a woman in power with authority over him, if he pleases her and does what she wants, then he will get a good grade, receive peer acceptance, and build a false sense of confidence. This is playing right into the feminists’ hands! One of the many tricks feminists play is the giving or withholding of sex in return for favors, or giving up of power. Its how women got the right to vote, for instance. What are we teaching this younger generation of adolescent males? To become slaves to their vaginal masters?

    Regarding the Admin’s most recent reply: Again we do not live in a rural farm society anymore. While the entire educational system is a total cluster f–k, nonetheless, the teachers do have substantial power & influence over the students. The female teacher that is desperate to have to have sex with a teenage boy is pretty sad and clearly, most of them have serious psychological issues. Do you want your son screwing a drugged up, Borderline personality teacher?

    Most parents do not want their children’s first sexual experience to be with a Personality Disordered, dominating person (regardless of gender or whatever scenario is playing out). Even in societies of past, that Eric references, parents had the last say in whether their adolescent could accept a proposal from an older solicitor. There was a familial & societal bond & contract. There was a benefit to the families, the couple, and to society. Thats not the case today. And its sad, IMO, that the Admin is solely focused on the sexual pleasure aspect of his son, b/c IMO this is short-term and miscalculated thinking…which is typical of adolescents, in contrast to the long-term, matured thinking of most adults.

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16. E:
    Thanks for that long response. I don’t have a copy of it in front of me, so I’ll have to quote from memory here: but Kurt Koffka also validated Piaget’s work (I think both in Switzerland) under clinical conditions. He wrote his findings in ‘The Growth of the Mind’ published, I think, around 1960. Kurt Lewin did some further expansion on Koffka’s thesis.

    How these older studies dispute the recent MIT& Emory studies dovetails into what you talked about with ‘life experiences’. The reason the recent studies are showing this type of anomalous immaturity among brain development—and I’ll explain why this anomalous in more detail later—has to do with education. It also dovetails into what HS & Angry Harry stated about ‘learned traumatization’.

    There’s a huge difference between life experiences of a 13 y/o growing up in the Swiss Alps or American farmlands in 1960 and dumbed-down 13 y/o of today. People then witnessed live births in the home; life and death through activities like hunting and shared family experiences more closely. IOW, the life experiences of an average 13 y/o and even an average 40+ y/o were not that radically different. The reason that ‘life experiences’ is an argument at all today is because people are growing up under unnatural conditions. If you teach them that they are children well into their 20s—they’ll NEVER reach a state of maturity. As a reflection of that, notice all these feminist Cougars who behave like 20 y/o’s a generation ago—well into their 50s!

    The problem is defective education. If we got rid of paedohysteria, people would be allowed to mature naturally and the life experience factor would be neutralized. I would suggest that the slow rates of maturity documented by the recent studies actually reflect social retardation—and not a natural condition like the earlier studies. The earlier studies show us what happens when children are allowed to grow up and stop looking at themselves as victims. My great-grandmother was married and had kids at 15; she knew what to do because she’d grown up around her mom and sisters aunts and friends and learned from what they did. It wasn’t uncommon that a father would fall sick or even die and a 16 y/o son would take over and manage the farm or business—successfully (my gg-grandfather did).

    If they had grown up under the current social conditions, they would not have succeeded, they’d likely been put on drugs or dumped on to the tender mercies of the State—that’s far more cruel than anything that might have ‘traumatized’ them by today’s standards.

    It’s been the same throughout history regarding sex. Sex is natural, like eating or sleeping. It’s only that people have been taught that it’s shameful and guilty and traumatizing that they believe it. And that’s been imposed on society by feminism and puritanism.

    Regarding the homosexual issue and disparity in gender sentencing: I don’t see why either should be sentenced to prison. Homosexual ‘grooming’ is something a little different that what women do—but where were the fathers in those cases? In the past, these ‘groomers’ would have had to answer to the men in the community—but today gay sex is celebrated—again, an unnatural condition. The females, I argue, are NOT predatory, because they don’t initiate sex, as Eivind Berge’s pointed out. Even in the story above, it was the young MEN who came on to the older teacher! Such actions don’t typically traumatize young men at all; on the contrary, it raises their confidence and they often boast about it—which is how many of these unfortunate female teachers end up getting caught. It used to be customary for fathers to take their teenaged sons to prostitutes for the exact purpose of raising their sexual confidence and breaking their sexual tensions. Forcing people into extended childhoods ultimately is doing much more harm than good.

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17. Pingback: Child Molestation? | oogenhand

18. @E: I only dare to be in favor of sexual freedom and abolishment of age of consent, because I have no interest in underage sex partners, and go through great length to verify and document age and consent. See disclaimer.

    Due to the child sex trauma hysteria,  absolutely nobody can do research that would show that children and adolescents are not damaged by consensual sex. The Rind study did this and for the only time ever in history, both US congress and senate interfered in science by condemning a peer reviewed prestigious study. This is like the church condemning astronomy research that denies that the earth is the center of the Universe.

    Rarely a person, like Susan Clancy starts to do research from the point of view of child sex hysteria, but gets convinced by facts and hard data that the theory is wrong.  She found that the sexual experience tends to be non-traumatic when it happens. It becomes traumatic once the "victim" is exposed to the hysteria. So if everyone tells these boys that they are damaged for life.  This is further aggravated if the "victim" had positive feelings and now feels sick and wrong s/he enjoyed such a traumatizing act.

    The child sex trauma myth itself CAUSES the Trauma. Angry Harry keeps stressing this point.

    If you are a father, it is up to you to educate your child to not consensually engage in precocious sexual behavior and engage with fiddling old farts while still a child. But you should know if it happens, the damage is none, or minor. On the other hand, it is proven that life long serious damage can be caused by overfeeding:  overweight, diabetes etc (see child food porn)

    So it is an insanely stupid idea that a 17 year old boy gets permanently damaged by a blow job by a hot 24 year old teacher, but not if the sex partner is a 17 year old immature girl exactly his age.

    Do you really believe that? terribly traumatizing with a 24 year old, no trauma with a 17 year old? And what if the 17 year old looks like 24?

    All this happens at an adolescent post pubertal age range where for 200 000 years humans already had family, responsibility and kids. And now it is damaging. Just ridiculous.

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19. Eric, appreciate your comments. Schopenbecq’s homophobic accusations came before I mentioned AVFM or Paul Elam. It was a personal attack b/c I have a dissenting opinion on this subject. If there are homosexual members of the AVFM community, it doesn’t bother me nor does it invalidate their perspectives or what they’ve shared. Their sexual orientation is irrelevant.

    In addition, heterosexuals on AVFM share the same opinion I do on this matter. Regardless of whether you, Schopenbecq, AVFM or anyone else agrees with me, I still stand by my previous comments. Here is why:

    Numerous studies such as the one cited in AVFM have real accounts of young male victims. Whatever you, I or pscyhiatrists (I didn’t know Paul was a psychiatrist) think, hundreds if not thousands of victims have spoken and clearly stated they did not want the sex, they did not enjoy it, and that it caused problems for them. So while some young male (or female) adolescents may enjoy the experience and possibly not have obvious adverse effects, there are thousands who do.

    The brain continues to mature through the early twenties. This is a biological fact. Almost every neurobiologist and neurospychiatrist will attest to this. The average psychiatrist (there is a difference) probably doesn’t have the extensive clinical & forensic training & experience that the neurobiologist/neuropsychiatrist does. I’m sure you have your studies/info, but here are some pieces that you may be interested in, which is based on biological science and not social science. As you said, Piaget’s work was conducted decades ago, before MRI imaging, CAT scans, etc. His work, as many other works that didn’t have the technology, are obsolete:

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/eyes-the-brain/201108/when-is-the-brain-fully-mature

    http://www.livescience.com/7005-brains-young-adults-fully-mature.html

    http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2007/mar/30/brain-doesnt-mature-until-20s-experts-say/
    At Emory University, researchers led by Greg Berns are pursuing yet another culprit in the adolescent decision-making process – excess of the brain-signaling chemical dopamine.

    “We propose that the reason that teenagers sometimes make bad decisions is because the reward system in their brains is hyperactive,” said Berns, an associate professor in psychiatry and behavioral science.

    “Studies in both humans and other animals have suggested that the dopamine system peaks in activity during adolescence. If this is true, the abundance of dopamine might lead to different considerations of short-term and long-term rewards and consequences,” he said.

    http://hrweb.mit.edu/worklife/youngadult/brain.html
    Setting the Stage–Adolescence

    The limitations of the “teen brain” has been well publicized in the mass media, helping parents, teachers, and others understand why it may be difficult for teens to meet our expectations and demands for managing emotions, handling risks, responding to relationships, and engaging in complex school work or employment.

    In early- and mid-adolescence, the brain undergoes considerable growth and pruning, moving generally from back to front areas of the cerebral cortex.

    Changes in Young Adulthood
    At the same time that young adults are experiencing new levels of sophistication in thinking and emotional regulation, their brains are undergoing changes in precisely the areas associated with these functions. While it is not possible to determine cause-and-effect, brain and behavior are changing in parallel.

    Prefrontal cortex: The most widely studied changes in young adulthood are in the prefrontal cortex, the area behind the forehead associated with planning, problem-solving, and related tasks. At least two things affect the efficiency in its functioning: myelination: the nerve fibers are more extensively covered with myelin, a substance that insulates them so that signals can be transmitted more efficiently, and synaptic pruning: the “briar patch” of connections resulting from nerve growth are pruned back, allowing the remaining ones to transmit signals more efficiently.

    Connections among regions: At the same time, the prefrontal cortex communicates more fully and effectively with other parts of the brain, including those that are particularly associated with emotion and impulses, so that all areas of the brain can be better involved in planning and problem-solving.

    “Executive suite”: The cluster of functions that center in the prefrontal cortex is sometimes called the “executive suite,” including calibration of risk and reward, problem-solving, prioritizing, thinking ahead, self-evaluation, long-term planning, and regulation of emotion. (See Merlin Donald, Daniel Keating, and others in References.) It is not that these tasks cannot be done before young adulthood, but rather that it takes less effort, and hence is more likely to happen.

    20s and beyond
    According to recent findings, the human brain does not reach full maturity until at least the mid-20s. (See J. Giedd in References.) The specific changes that follow young adulthood are not yet well studied, but it is known that they involve increased myelination and continued adding and pruning of neurons. As a number of researchers have put it, “the rental car companies have it right.” The brain isn’t fully mature at 16, when we are allowed to drive, or at 18, when we are allowed to vote, or at 21, when we are allowed to drink but closer to 25, when we are allowed to rent a car.”
    ***************************************************
    I don’t think you, or I, or Schopenbecq or 30yr old work by Piaget can dispute what MIT, Emory University & others have scientifically concluded.

    Moreover, its not only a matter of physical brain maturity or emotional maturity, but also of life experience. Schopenbecq failed to address the fact that a 13yr old kid has no life experience. A 30yr old teacher has substantial life experience. Most 13yr old kids don’t know how the world works. Most 30yr old adults do. Again, its not age discrimination as it is a maturity and experiential issue. Generally speaking, 30yr olds know most what 45yr olds know; 13yr olds are significantly at a power, emotional maturity, self-identity disadvantage compared to a 30yr old. I think this is obvious.

    In addition, Schopenbecq has failed to address the male-on-male issue. If we are truly for gender equality, then Jerry Sandusky (Penn State) and Catholic Priests would be free to do as they please. Many if not most of these pedophiles didn’t ‘forcibly’ rape adolescents & teenagers; they manipulated them, groomed them, then molested them. So if Jerry Sandusky and Catholic Priests go to prison for doing the same behavior/activity as a female teacher, shouldn’t the female teacher go to prison? Its all essentially consensual.

    This is the issue; why female predators are getting off more leniently than male predators. Nobody here has addressed that issue. Again, what would Schopenbecq do if a 300lb male teacher consensually laid on top of his 13yr old son? That’s what I thought. No response. Kinda funny how our viewpoints change when the gender changes…and thus, he unknowingly supports a feminist position on this matter. Feminists don’t want female teachers in jail either.

    I’m just surprised we’re essentially equating emotional & physical maturity, generally speaking, of 13yr olds vs. 30yr olds. Science proves this isn’t the case; many victims do not agree either.

    Reply

20. As for men being ‘victims’ of women, this was well-answered by a real MRA, Eivind Berge:

    http://eivindberge.blogspot.com/2013/01/beware-of-sex-negative-mras.html

    Reply

21. E:
    As a psychiatrist, Paul Elam should know then that most psychiatric writers: Piaget, Montessori, Koffka, and others PROVED decades ago that mental maturity begins at puberty, the same as biological maturity. According to Piaget, childhood thinking ceases and adult reasoning capabilities begin around the age of 11 or 12. To say that people past that age cannot give rational consent is unscientific.

    Angry Harry, who himself is an MRA and a psychiatrist, challenged Elam on his assumptions about male sexual abuse. For that, he basically shouted down on AVfM.

    What Shopenbecq says about latent homosexuality in the MHRM is NOT projection. John the Other and Dean Esmay are open homosexuals; Typhon Blue and other women there have admitted to bisexuality; and Paul Elam himself has made references to having ‘a partner’ (gender always unspecified).

    Reply

22. Usually the guy who has to throw homosexual (homophobic) accusations around is the one with latent (or hyperactive) homosexuality. I am heterosexual, but if you’re homosexual you don’t have to attack me I accept you for who you are and have no problem if that’s who you are. You’re using adolescent tactics in an adult’s argument. Yet I digress.

    If a 300lb male teacher stuck his dick up your 13yr old son’s ass, albeit consensually, you’d kill the dude. If a 120lb female teacher stuck her finger up your son’s ass, consensually, you’d congratulate him. You’re the one who takes the woman’s side here. What an idiot.

    My question if the Admin has children was not a shaming tactic, unlike your hyperbole & sophomoric rantings. It was a rhetorical question; being a parent usually causes one to have a different perspective on life and on issues involving child sex. I do have children btw.

    You claim to be an MRA. Then you should be familiar with ‘A Voice For Men’ and the founder of the site, and a preeminent MRA who practically helped found the MRA movement, Paul Elam.

    If you are familiar with AVFM and Paul Elam, and in fact, most other MRA sites and supporters, then you’ll know the overwhelming majority of MRAs support child predator laws designed to protect ALL children regardless of gender of the victim or perpetrator.

    Don’t believe me? Do your homework. Check out this article written by Paul Elam on AVFM. Read the comments by the numerous MRAs. You’ll see the MRAs support strong laws against male AND female sexual predators who prey on young boys & teenagers. Take a look at what numerous young male victims have written about their experiences. Stop projecting your repressed adolescent fantasies onto the young boys of today.

    *Note, I am not an official representative of AVFM nor do I claim to speak for Paul Elam. I’m only copying & pasting his comments and the link to his article. Below is the link, and further below is an excerpt from Paul Elam’s article on AVFM.

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/boys/sandusky-verdict-is-no-victory/

    If you want to have sex with 13yr old girls/boys, please don’t use the MRA title and your anger at society in general to rationalize criminal, unethical and immoral behavior.

    Class dismissed.

    “One has to admit, with male victims rationalizing what happened to them in this way (which they often do as long as a way to cover the internal turmoil), it does make it harder on the victims suffering silently. Perhaps a more sobering look at other victims, ones not enjoying notoriety with their abusers, will help.

    In 1994 David Lisak, Ph. D., interviewed 26 male sexual abuse victims, many of whom were molested by women. Unlike Fualaau, their memories of their abuse are not a source of sexual heat or the subject of good-natured banter with friends. In fact, their long term reactions, categorized by Lisak, are alarming. They are as follows:

    •Anger
    •Betrayal
    •Fear
    •Helplessness
    •Homosexuality Issues (for those abused by men)
    •Isolation and Alienation
    •Legitimacy (being able to take the abuse and its effect seriously)
    •Loss
    •Masculinity Issues (being OK about being male)
    •Negative Childhood Peer Relations
    •Negative Schemas About People (difficulty trusting others)
    •Negative Schemas About the Self (feeling bad about one’s self)
    •Problems with Sexuality
    •Self Blame/Guilt
    •Shame/Humiliation

    The Lisak paper includes interview quotes that were taken from a random sampling of the 26 victims. Perhaps child molesters like Letourneau, and pedophilia advocates like Adam Sandler should have looked past their own petty sexual gratification at the real results.

    Said one victim:

    I just had to put up with it. That’s the way she was. They were her rules. If she said I have to kiss her, I have to kiss her. If she says I have to hug her, I have to hug her. It was like I kept trying to fill her cup and it just kept running out. And she is standing there screaming “Fill it, fill it, fill it!”

    And another telling young man who said:

    So they [women] can see themselves as victims. Maybe they can see themselves that victims are okay, they’re good somehow, they martyred themselves. Some way if you can have a black and white, good or evil, women were good and men were bad. Well, I’m the victim, but I’m a guy, and guys are bad. So I can’t even be a victim, right?

    It is almost funny, isn’t it? It appears like no one has to explain the issues of the MRM to a boy who is a victim of a female sexual predator. Just imagine what that means. Is that what it takes for some men to “get it”?

    I am afraid the answer is yes, and that is a tragedy that we see played out across the culture each and every time this subject rears its ugly head.

    How fucked up is this planet that in order to be seen as a male victim of sexual abuse that your perpetrator must also be male? It’s only bad, it’s only real, it only counts, when it’s a homo. We have a well-educated public. They know full well that boys cannot be harmed by women. They follow through with that knowledge brutally. So if a woman destroys your life before it really gets started, you can only hope to end up in a study that will be noticed by a few academicians and a handful of MRA’s. That is what we do to boys, after they are abused.

    If you have a male child unfortunate enough to be molested, and you want any real justice or compassion for him, you better hope his assailant is a man. For male victims it is the only way that this society is going to give a shit about what happened to them. And that is only because they hate gay men, or men who choose same sex children for predation, about as much as they hate you.”

    Excerpt from Paul Elam, AVFM, June 23, 2012

    Reply

23. BTW, I doubt if you have children, and I wouldn’t wish forced therapy and victim labelling on any son of mine for getting lucky with a young woman.

    Like most MHRAs, you’re probably a self-hating homosexual, trying to project your shame at your own sexuality on to all other males.

    Reply

24. @E

    “First, human brains usually aren’t fully developed until very late teens or early twenties.”

    So isn’t the consequence of that view that the age of consent should be raised to something like 21? The myth of the adolescent brain has been debunked anyway by Robert Epstein.

    The hidden assumption you’re making is that sex is a massive act of huge long term significance. In an age of easy contraception, abortion, a welfare state, acceptance of pre-marital sex, it is not. And that’s true for both boys and girls.

    ” To condone adult-on-child relationships is not a good idea. Do you have children?”

    Adolescents are closer to adulthood than they are to childhood, especially in terms of sexual psychology and awareness.

    If you are a MHRA then you are a joke even by the average standard of an MHRA. ‘do you have children’. That is not a logical argument but mere shaming language, of an identical manner to the ‘do you have a daughter/sister’ shaming tactic feminists and white knights use against men’s rights supporters.

    “MRAs are not out to punish women. They are out to equalize the grossly unequitable treatment of men compared to women in the legal system. Not just this particular issue, but also all types of situations. Child custody, alimony, support, crime, etc”

    You’re wrong. MRAs,even MHRAs, always question the feminist law itself (example rape law, or domestic violence law) whilst arguing for equal punishment. The age of consent is the only issue (that predominantly affects men) which mras do not question the (feminist) law itself.

    Feminists locking up men under feminist laws is a men’s rights issue, whether your pea brain can understand it, and if you deny it then you are not a true mra.

    As a men’s rights supporter, you need strong proof and argument to support a feminist law that criminalizes hundreds of thousands of men worldwide, and you don’t have any.

    Reply

25. Completely disagree. First, human brains usually aren’t fully developed until very late teens or early twenties. Second, someone who is say, 13, lacks a great deal of mental/physical maturity. A young person often cannot completely comprehend their actions & consequences. This is why we have juvenile courts and adult courts. We now know the major differences between the two.

    In addition, an adolescent lacks a vast amount of life experience that say, a 25yr old teacher (or older) has. The vast differences are astounding. Its not age discrimination. Its the complete lack of life experience an adolescent has. Its not like we’re comparing a 30yr old to a 42yr old. To condone adult-on-child relationships is not a good idea. Do you have children?

    MRAs are not out to punish women. They are out to equalize the grossly unequitable treatment of men compared to women in the legal system. Not just this particular issue, but also all types of situations. Child custody, alimony, support, crime, etc. Women murderers receive far more lenient sentences than men. They almost never receive the death penalty even if there are aggravating circumstances (think Jodi Arias). The majority of child abuse and child murders are committed by women, yet they receive far lenient sentences than men for the same crimes.

    Reply

26. Most self-respecting parents would not wish their adolescent or teenage sons to be having sex with their teachers. Its also not ethical on the teacher’s part.

    In addition, as MRAs asking for gender-equality in this type of situation, what happens if a homosexual male teacher engages in consensual sex with the young male student? Since its now (theoretically) gender-neutral issue, then the young male student who fantasized about having sex (and subsequently doing so) with adult male teacher, then its not a serious crime?

    In addition, the psychology behind all of this is sick. The young male is learning very early on to be manipulated by women through sex…an older woman in a position of authority & power. Issues & problems many men face & struggle against every day now. So when he becomes a man, maybe sexual harrassment (both ways) is acceptable to him(?). Who knows. The consequences are many and can vary. Each child and individual is different.

    So was it a traumatic rape with the obvious consequences? Perhaps not, but the commentators & author here dismissing this as trivial young boys getting laid is worrisome. You’re validating the predatory (and perhaps feminist) teacher’s behavior.

    Reply

    1. I omitted the valid issue, that parents want to trust school that their children will not be seduced by teachers (or seduce teachers).

       In order to take care of concerns about manipulation of minors, I suggest to demand either parental consent (many fathers would gladly allow their young boys to bed a cute teacher) or a few mandatory psychological counselling sessions as pre-condition to allow such outlawed relations.

       Yes, that would also be valid for girls. Remember, in the past, sex laws were meant to protect virginity and protect from pregnancy. I believe that a mature man has better knowledge and self control to use birth control, and better financial means to pay for the consequences, then a 15 year old boy. Strangely, a 15 year old girl could bed a 15 year old boy, a clear case of ageism, or age discrimination.

       Reply

27. Notice the double standard. Can you even imagine any publication running the headline: Gorgeous 24 year old David Powell rapes children, age 15-17, who begged to be raped? Until males are treated with the same respect as females in our society – and receive the same punishment for crimes – MRAs will point out the blatant hypocrisy.

    Reply

    1. I only respect those MRA who see that most sex laws are wrong and immoral. Who only want to punish women so they wake up and join us in the quest to abolish these sex repressive laws.

       And yes, I believe that adolescent girls also know what they are doing.

       As alternative, I have always suggested: demand a psychological counseling session, and a 3 day cool off period before allowing underage sex, if you really want to protect minors from manipulation and trauma.

       Reply

28. I agree with the author. Most teenage boys crave sex with hot girls and women – and that never changes. As an MRA, however, I disagree that our “movement gladly traumatizes the boys.” Furthermore, the reason we may demand even more punishment for Meredith Powell is because so many male teachers in the same situation are punished more harshly than females. Yes, the age of consent should be lowered to 13. Yes, the law should be applied equally to both genders. How is that wrong?

    Reply

    1. Did you get the point? The legal procedure, the police and judicial persecution of the woman lover traumatizes the boys. And MRA are complicit in this.

       As the antifeminist says: Equal injustice for all.

       Rather we want to fight for adolescents of both sexes to be taken seriously, and to give them freedom of choice of sexual partners.

       If you want to drop the age of consent to 13, we pretty much agree. Still, unbelievably, it is a scientific fact that women mature faster, and that in all history, the legal marriage age was, and still is, lower for women.

       So a point could be made to put the age of consent lower for female adolescents. Or, as I would put it, scrap the age of consent laws uncerimoniously. We have laws against violence, threats, and maybe we add blatant lying and manipulation of minors to it.

       Reply

29. When I was a teenager, I used to pray for this kind of ‘abuse’.

    But MHRM dunces like Dean Esmay and the troll Clarence think such women being locked up is just fine, and the boys terribly traumatized.

    I actually remember single teachers and students getting married both when I was in H.S. and in college. But in the paedohysterical United States—of which Washington State is the worst (I know, I live there lol) sex is treated like a crime, and anyone who engages in it, a victim.

    Reply

    1. Right, 20 years ago I saw that most really old professors that now would be around 90 years old, were married to former graduate students. So some 50 years ago that was normal and accepted practice.

       It is just natural: women marrying an experienced man the can respect and look up to, and that they can know intimately by prolonged contact.

       Reply

30. I wish I had been “victimized” by such a teacher in my youth. I would have been a much happier person had I been.

    Reply

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